Young Geoffrey Dissed!
Dec. 28th, 2004 04:43 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ed_rexGirlfriend Leaps to His Defence!
Well, that was interesting - if more stressful than it should have been. After years of experience with flame-wars, I still find they pump more adrenaline into my system than they ought.
It all started with my ego (as what, in this world, Gentle Readers, does not?). I requested a review of my journal, curious as to what random strangers might make of my words.
Didn't find out. I did find out that my relationship with Laura is so appalling to some people that they could not get past it. I am a dirty old man, she at once a victim and a slut. And so, yes, I was unable to keep myself from responding and thus wasted far more of my precious time there than I should have. And so, Laura leapt to my (and her) defence, sparking a battle in another journal entirely.
Still, I suppose I enjoyed the exercise.
My "Christmas" has been mostly restful. I had 5 days off - mostly: I was on call, Web's pager with me at all times. Fortunately, there have been no disasters, so I haven't had to go into the office. I have answered a few emails and returned some phonecalls, but didn't have to spend a lot of time at it. With luck, tomorrow will be a quiet day, so that I can work on my site (which isn't as slackerish as that sounds; I want to learn to use .css files and what better way to practice that new skill than with a site that doesn't belong to a client?).
Still, I've needed the break and, if I haven't accomplished all that I had hoped to, I am well-rested and optimistic about the coming year.
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(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-28 10:19 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-28 10:31 pm (UTC)You young'uns need to learn to let simple things go. Honestly.
If it's any consolation, I tend to talk discuss your relationship (with anonymity, of course)with quite a few people I know so as to clear up any misconceptions people may have about what it takes to have a successful relationship.
Laura and yourself make quite possibly one of the most adorable (and successful) couples I've had the pleasure of knowing about.
Hence I insist that your gentle reader see some cutesty couple pictures eventually.
"Daddy"? I commonly refer to my boy as my beloved pedophile quite a bit, even though he's not quite 4 years my senior.
It's all good, as long as its consensual :)
Take care of yourself and Laura, dear.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-28 10:47 pm (UTC)Yeah, I know, I know. If they just hadn't liked it, I'd have been fine; personal insults seem to have their desired effect on me, though.
If it's any consolation, I tend to talk discuss your relationship (with anonymity, of course)with quite a few people I know so as to clear up any misconceptions people may have about what it takes to have a successful relationship.
I don't need any consolation, but that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy (in an entirely un-sarcastic way). I'm genuinely curious: what do you say about us, to use us as an example? It seems to me that most of what you (as one of my Gentle Readers) read is just us being all cutesy and "nauseating".
Hence I insist that your gentle reader see some cutesty couple pictures eventually.
You know, that's a good idea. I'll try to have my camera with me the next time we're with a third party.
I agree with the consensual bit - so long as it's really consensual. Which is why I think having some age of consent is a Very Good Idea. I think 14 is a reasonable compromise, though the idea of my neice (recently turned that age) getting involved with someone much past 16 gets my fists a-clenchin'.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-28 11:14 pm (UTC)What I read, is that you two have quite a bit of understanding for each others situations and have great compatibility and independant personalities to match. I only know the two of you through what I've read ( or what you've chosen to reveal to the world about yourselves), and like you solely based on the way you express yourselves. So I can conclude that the two of you do make a great pair, and it's a wonderful relationship that progresses due to the fact that insignificant factors like age don't rear their ugly heads on your individual parts. I've seen some nastiness coming from other people, but you two are adults in every sense of the word and handle situations as such.
I wholeheartedly agree with the idea of having some age of consent, although it never really works out too well. Some moronic sixteen year old will keep sneaking out of her house for 28-year-old Joe, because he 'really does love her', even though he only calls when he needs a quickie. It's blatantly obvious who's being used in this scenario to you and I, but that's not going to stop her, so I can't be judgemental. People do stupid things, it's natural to do certain things, because you end up learning from experiences.
Although, sixteen works just fine for me as the age of consent. Now if only we could vote...
Hah, I should talk. I can't even figure out what the fuck I'm doing here, but hopefully you'll just look at my rants and consider them nothing more than well-meaning advice based on the experience I've had, nothing more.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-28 11:37 pm (UTC)For the record, it's quite an interesting flamewar from a feminist perspective -- as is often the case, there's a level of condescension mixed in with puritanism (as you pointed out) mixed in with just plain sexism. All of these well-meaning people trying to prove that they're out for the rights of this poor, innocent "child", then slipping up and attacking her when they realize she's an actual person and not some abstract concept.
Also, you know when I call you a dirty old man, I mean it in the fondest sense, right?
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-29 01:02 am (UTC)that's insane.
(and the fact that i read through each of those comments certainly says a lot about me too...)
sadly enough, what those people don't get is that you and laura possibly have one of the most solid relationships i've ever had the pleasure of reading about.
and if it means anything to you... i never would've met you for drinks if i thought you were a dirty old man ;) haha
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-29 04:10 am (UTC):D Ahahahahaha.... I can't believe you were brave enough to face those beasts at ljreviewz. Not only do I find the whole concept pathetic, but the 'z' at the end of ljreviewz really pisses off my inner grammer/spelling checker. Grrrrr...
I've read some of their comments to other people's journals with a sort of morbid fascination (as with yours - I particularly love the way they were getting so indignant and self-righteous - especially the guy/girl? at the end going something along the lines of "You RACIST PIG, man!!" for an unfathomable reason - besides the fact that you said "you people", which is almost the same as screaming "Nigger" nowadays around here - Christ, we can't even speak normally anymore due to excessive PC-ness. It's like whenever I try to defend gay rights to my friends and they all jump to conclusions:
FRIEND: OMFG! You're an evil lesbian!!
ME: No. Sorry to disappoint.
FRIEND: OMFG! That means you're a bisexual!!
ME: No.
FRIEND: OMFG! That means you're an EVIL HOMOPHOBIC!!
But... that's kinda off topic. As for you and Laura - I'm not in a position to judge you since I hardly know you at all, and I don't know her beside the fact that she has a tattoo on her cunt (which is incidentally, the first thing the ljreviewz beasts picked up on - do they have no concept of the word 'personality? Or were they just jealous cuz they wanted a cunt tattoo, too?)
I'm actually a peer mentor at my school, and I have to be honest, if one of the teens I was counselling was seeing a man nearly forty, I'd have to report it to a teacher and they'd handle the situation - however, I counsel kids that are 16 and younger, and it also depends on the maturity of the teenager. I know girls at 19 who act like 13 year olds, and I know girls at 15 who act so grown up that its intimidating.
And to be completely honest, me and my friends would cringe if we heard someone we know going out with a man that much older... but the only old men available to date on this island, besides teachers, are pervy old tourists who tour the bars and the whores, and since I go to a strict and prestigious private school, not many girls go out with these sorts of men (there are one or two, but they really *are* sluts, since one is 14 and the other is 15, and they've already run through most of the guys at the school). We've all had crushes on teachers your age, and if George Clooney or Brad Pitt, who are both in their late thirties, ever gave us a chance for a shag, we'd jump 'em ;)
So, yeah, you're right - personality counts most. As for coolness - I've learned that most 'cool' guys are complete idiots. I'm looking forward to my wild 20s when I can have lots of affairs with older and educated men :D
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-29 04:23 am (UTC)I am a little saddened you fell for the bane of LJ the dreaded RATING COMMUNITY. It's highschool cliques in disguise no matter how they try to dress it up. They get off on judging other people and conforming.
Just so you know I am not immune to the lure of acceptance either, I once fell for a rating community too. I got flamed by some 15 year old writer that dissed the piece I submitted.
You don't need a community to tell you that your writing is above average when it comes to LJ. You're readers can vouche for that.
As for your relationship with Laura, last time I looked you were both consenting adults under Canadian Law, so those moral purists in that community should get stuffed. Just because someone objects to the fact that they wouldn't let their daughter do the "shit" Laura is doing, that doesn't give them the right to judge her.
Gah, do me a favour and make a new year's resolution to avoid rating communities.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-29 05:31 am (UTC)While I have to admit I am somewhat weirded out by the you and Laura thing, it is abundantly clear from both your posts that you are both happy with it, and that is what it comes down to, your (both of your choices).
But holy shit, while I didn't read on long enough to see if anyone invoked Godwin's Law, the flames were sure getting ugleee!
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-29 05:34 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-29 06:02 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-29 06:58 am (UTC)..
Date: 2004-12-29 04:57 pm (UTC)Thanks for stroking our egos, "Gentle Readers"...I think Geoffy (and, perhaps even myself) might have needed it after that sort of sass.
Normal I think myself above getting in catty fights like the one I couldn't manage to restrain myself from...*especially* over the internet!! But maybe I'll just blame it on the fact that most people suck. They're hypocritical, simplistic, puritanical (ass miss_negativity and Geoff concurred), not to mention that they can't seem to think "out-of-their-OH!-so-sheltered-box."
On a completely seperate note:
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
xoxo much love
-laura
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-29 05:17 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-29 05:58 pm (UTC)Discovering that people are using me - er, us - as some sort of ideal example of a good relationship is at once flattering and nervous-making (what will The Romance Gods think? Er, not that I'm superstitious or anything ...).
I wholeheartedly agree with the idea of having some age of consent, although it never really works out too well. Some moronic sixteen year old will keep sneaking out of her house for 28-year-old Joe, because he 'really does love her', even though he only calls when he needs a quickie. It's blatantly obvious who's being used in this scenario to you and I, but that's not going to stop her, so I can't be judgemental. People do stupid things, it's natural to do certain things, because you end up learning from experiences.
Yeah, the age-of-consent thing will always be flawed, no matter where it is set. The question is: at what (arbitrary) age does society decide to stop protecting people from their own stupidity and permit them to make their own mistakes?
Although, sixteen works just fine for me as the age of consent. Now if only we could vote...
Sure, you say that now; would you agree if you were still 15? :)
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-29 06:02 pm (UTC)Yeah, that was too much. I need to grow up and not let that kind of stupidity bother me enough to respond; it's an incredible waste of time.
But fun - and I think I now understand why you are forever sharing your battles with your Gentle Readers.
For the record, it's quite an interesting flamewar from a feminist perspective -- as is often the case, there's a level of condescension mixed in with puritanism (as you pointed out) mixed in with just plain sexism. All of these well-meaning people trying to prove that they're out for the rights of this poor, innocent "child", then slipping up and attacking her when they realize she's an actual person and not some abstract concept.
I'd missed the sexism, but you're quite right; turning on the (female) "victim" is really quite classic, isn't it?
Also, you know when I call you a dirty old man, I mean it in the fondest sense, right?
Er, yeah, I guess so. (He said, only now aware that she does so refer to him by that term.)
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-29 06:04 pm (UTC)Though I pride myself on not being a rubbernecker, sometimes ugly things just insist on being stared at.
and if it means anything to you... i never would've met you for drinks if i thought you were a dirty old man ;)
It does, actually. We should do it again some time.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-29 06:10 pm (UTC)Oh, I come from the late, lamented world of usenet and became quite adept at flame-wars; usually, though, those I participated in were of a significantly higher order.
Not only do I find the whole concept pathetic, but the 'z' at the end of ljreviewz really pisses off my inner grammer/spelling checker.
I've pretty much given up on things like the "z" used to replace "s". It's a fad; in 10 years, the (idiot) kids will be doing something else to piss off fogeys, old and young.
besides the fact that you said "you people", which is almost the same as screaming "Nigger" nowadays around here
I have to admit I used the term, "you people", with the thought it might set him off. I meant it to mean "you people at ljreviewz" but enjoyed the ambiguity.
I'm looking forward to my wild 20s when I can have lots of affairs with older and educated men
Well, watch out. Older and educated men, as a group, are just as stupid and messed up as the rest of the population.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-29 06:14 pm (UTC)Yes, evidently this group is. I still like the idea, though; there are so many journals here that I wouldn't mind being steered towards interesting ones. (Hmm, here's an idea: someone should start a community that only posts positive journal reviews - in other words, recommends journals worth reading while ignoring the rest. Any takers?)
Also, I was - and remain - curious as to what people think of my work, whether my journal-ing, or my fiction. Obviously, most of my Gentle Readers enjoy my work - it's a self-selected group - so putting it out there for random strangers to consider has its appeal.
(No promises on the resolution - but I'll try to abstain from forcing it upon the rest of you.)
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-29 06:15 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-29 06:17 pm (UTC)No one did invoke Godwin's Law, but I was tempted to do something along those lines.
Re: ..
Date: 2004-12-29 06:23 pm (UTC)There were some pretty nice things said, weren't there, my sweet? Though I'm still a little nervous about being held up as an ideal - what about you?
Just as well you (mostly) stayed out of it - they would have ignored anything you said in favour of one of two theories: (a) that I "persuaded" you to stick up for me or (b) that you're not real in the first place.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-29 06:24 pm (UTC)We still on for Friday?
Love,
g
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-29 06:29 pm (UTC)If you're wondering about the sexism (and what you've mentioned is part of it), switch the genders of the protagonists for a moment. A well-read and intellectual 17-year-old guy hooks up with a 39-year-old woman. They're open about it, his parents are cool with it, and sometimes they describe their exploits in graphic (but literary!) terms.
Is this exploitative? Probably not. It's a coming-of-age story. Granted, an older guy and a younger woman introduces different sorts of power dynamics, but you two happen to be conscious of that.
The last guy I slept with was significantly younger than me. (At least by my standards; not by his. His first experience, at age 15, was with a 25-year-old woman.) My friends engaged in some good-natured ribbing about cradle-robbing, but no one would have suggested that I was some sort of predator or that he was some sort of victim.
I only called you a dirty old man because you called yourself that once.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-29 06:41 pm (UTC)