Young Geoffrey Dissed!
Dec. 28th, 2004 04:43 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ed_rexGirlfriend Leaps to His Defence!
Well, that was interesting - if more stressful than it should have been. After years of experience with flame-wars, I still find they pump more adrenaline into my system than they ought.
It all started with my ego (as what, in this world, Gentle Readers, does not?). I requested a review of my journal, curious as to what random strangers might make of my words.
Didn't find out. I did find out that my relationship with Laura is so appalling to some people that they could not get past it. I am a dirty old man, she at once a victim and a slut. And so, yes, I was unable to keep myself from responding and thus wasted far more of my precious time there than I should have. And so, Laura leapt to my (and her) defence, sparking a battle in another journal entirely.
Still, I suppose I enjoyed the exercise.
My "Christmas" has been mostly restful. I had 5 days off - mostly: I was on call, Web's pager with me at all times. Fortunately, there have been no disasters, so I haven't had to go into the office. I have answered a few emails and returned some phonecalls, but didn't have to spend a lot of time at it. With luck, tomorrow will be a quiet day, so that I can work on my site (which isn't as slackerish as that sounds; I want to learn to use .css files and what better way to practice that new skill than with a site that doesn't belong to a client?).
Still, I've needed the break and, if I haven't accomplished all that I had hoped to, I am well-rested and optimistic about the coming year.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-29 08:39 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-29 08:53 pm (UTC)I don't like them, not really. I prefer discussions, where all parties, while maybe disagreeing, are at least striving to figure out Truth.
I don't often find them.
Is this exploitative? Probably not. It's a coming-of-age story. Granted, an older guy and a younger woman introduces different sorts of power dynamics, but you two happen to be conscious of that.
I'm not sure I'd say "probably not" - there are a lot of predators out there; more, there are a lot of messed-up, un-self-aware people out there, who will end up hurting those they involve themselves with whether they intend to or not.
I only called you a dirty old man because you called yourself that once.
No worries, I didn't take offence.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-29 08:58 pm (UTC)You know what's funny? When I read that, my very first thought was: Oh shit, what's that asshole doing with someone so young?
But I suspect Irene can take care of herself ...
and came home in one piece! I nearly forgot what it was like spending all day socializing with peers, since i've been on somewhat of a loner stint lately.
I'm glad you had a good time (and even more glad you made it home safely; *sigh* sometimes I really do worry about you, darlin'.
as for the comment on us being set as somewhat of an ideal...Im utterly flattered! I don't personally spy on other people's relationships...but I do see a lot of really miserable on-and-off relationships...and most of my not-so-close friends will go through 6 boyfriends and maybe 8 one-night-stands a year. So, as far as commitment and understanding goes...we're doing alright *wink*
I guess we are, my dear. My Inner Superstition is still kind of nervous that all this talk will somehow jinx us, though. (Some materialist I am!)
hahahhhahahaha
Date: 2004-12-29 09:36 pm (UTC)You made me laugh A LOT just from that...Oh! the hypocracy!! And yes, Irene *can* handle herself...unless she's drunk all the time. Apparently it's a no-go to mix squid with wine.
My Inner Superstition is still kind of nervous that all this talk will somehow jinx us, though. (Some materialist I am!)
Ehh, I got that odd feeling too. But hey, fuck superstition (i almost wrote "stuperstition"- Freudian slip?:P)
Whatever. Im 17 and invincible...nothing bad will happen :)
xoxo much love
laura
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-29 10:14 pm (UTC)I think you'd need to draw up a questionaire though to get a feel for what type of journal the person has from their own perspective. Questions like - 1) How often do you talk about what you bought at the mall in your journal? versus 2) How often do you write about world politics.
Let me know if you ever get around to starting that kind of community, I'd be willing to participate.
ljreviewz
Date: 2004-12-30 03:06 am (UTC)"Judge not lest ye be judged" (or something like that. I need to read my bible more carefully.)
Re: hahahhhahahaha
Date: 2004-12-30 03:12 pm (UTC)*le siiiigh*
"Stuperstition" indeed.
Re: ljreviewz
Date: 2004-12-30 03:14 pm (UTC)I seem to recall they didn't really review it, so much as point out you didn't have the required number of posts - or am I thinking of someone else?
As to judgement, I have no problem with it - so long as it is done honestly.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-30 03:44 pm (UTC)A questionaire might be a good idea. For instance, having me review a journal filled with nothing but quizzes and memes would be rather pointless.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-31 02:18 pm (UTC)I never realized I was promoting or reviewing my friends journals by telling them what it was that I admired about them. I thought I was simply commenting on what they meant to me. Good point. I guess I was giving a reference.
Maybe that's what we could do for a "review" community. Have people "recommend" other people's journals. That way it would take the onus off of the maintainers to slog through each one. We could provide a check list still with such things as frequency of postings, frequency of memes.
Interested?
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-31 08:22 pm (UTC)When I first realized Laura's age, I, too, found it hard to believe such a mature 17 year old existed. Most teens I know, in fact, most people I know, don't seem to have their heads screwed on as well as this young woman.
I also initially assumed that there must be "something wrong with her" to be attracted to someone so much older. Mind you, I'm not calling you old, I think we're around the same age. I've found (through your online interaction with her) that Laura is certainly not some poor little Lolita. Your relationship is complex and dynamic, and she is not a victim. She doesn't strike me as the type of woman who would allow herself to be victimized.
The difference, though, between me and those nasty reviewers, is that I actually was willing to admit that my preconceptions were wrong. Faced with the overwhelming evidence that is Laura's commentary, I now know a little better than mature people can be found inside teen bodies, just as well as immature people being found in middle-aged bodies.
I didn't have to go to Laura's journal to make these observations of her, it was sufficient to see her interaction with you in your own journal. I believe those reviewers went well beyond their scope when they examined her personal journal. I followed the link they made to the infamous tattoo entry, Christ, that was something like August, wasn't it? That's a little above and beyond the call for a review of your journal.
As to your initial quest to have your journal reviewed, if that's stil what you want, I wish you luck. I'm not a fan of rating communities of any sort, but I know some folks find them useful.
Hello
Date: 2005-01-01 12:50 pm (UTC)I lost my virginity to a 51 year old.Anyways... being that you're 39... eh... I'd say it's not bad for her. If she's able to manage it without too much drama, you're probably young enough not to cause too much damage in her head. Two years ago I'd have said that it couldn't hurt her in the least! But er, I've kind of suffered from my experiences with older men. I can't even hug my father without feeling weird anymore, and every older man that is even slightly kind to me is suddenly an old pervert trying to get into my pants.
But again 51 and 16 vs. 39 and 17 is a difference.
Anyway, I just felt I should reply... because I did.
Hello.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-01 08:45 pm (UTC)One of my (less orthodox) teachers once said to me, "I really feel sorry for girls your age -- you can't find any man within your age range whose intelligence and maturity level are even remotely comparable to yours. So, unless you date a paedophile or tolerate an imbecile, you'll just have to be celibate until you're thirty."
I'm sure there do exist emotionally mature and intelligent 17 to 20-year-old boys to whom I might potentially be attracted, but I haven't had the fortune of meeting any. So, although I don't plan on actively going out to find myself a 30-year-old boyfriend, I have to admit that there are definite merits to the so-called May/December relationships. Hell, I'll even admit I'm often jealous when you talk about Laura -- I doubt any seventeen-year-old I could go out with would talk about me like that.
I also have to wonder, would they have condemned you so badly if she were a year older? There seems to be some idea that the magical elixir of epiphany is handed to you when you're eighteen. If only that were true! Then the world wouldn't be so full of stupid adults who believe that their age alone is enough to validate any sort of ridiculous opinion they might wish to express.
Age of consent is fourteen in Ontario, twelve if the age difference is less than two years. A perfectly reasonable limit, I think.
(Wait, am I the Gentle Reader who complains that you're nauseating?)
(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-01 10:15 pm (UTC)As for the "recommendations" community, I'd read it, but I don't want to be responsible for it; believe it or not, I'm actually working on my website right now.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-01 10:50 pm (UTC)Yeah, he was too much; he pretty much destroyed what little interest I had left in that "debate". (And you're right about the Geoffy thing; there's no way in hell I'd have come up with that on my own.
I, too, found it hard to believe such a mature 17 year old existed. Most teens I know, in fact, most people I know, don't seem to have their heads screwed on as well as this young woman.
I think the key is that "most people" are not nearly as interesting, nor do they have their heads as together as does Laura. Her self-awareness in particular is almost awe-inspiring.
But enough about Laura.
At the risk of sounding pretentious and/or condescending, it's people like you - who are willing to reconsider their views (yes, I like to count myself among them) - that give me hope for our all-too-often laughable species.
I hadn't really thought before about their nerve in not only checking out Laura's journal, but in publicizing it, when she had not put herself up for judgement; pretty fucking low, when you come down to it.
As for the rating communities, I don't like the clique-ishness, but their info page fooled me into thinking I might get some serious critiques of my words. (More fool me: I've taken up anonymous' suggestion and asked for more abuse, this time from the_reviewers. We'll see how that goes.)
Re: Hello
Date: 2005-01-01 11:07 pm (UTC)I hope I am not - and won't be - causing any damage to her head or any other part of her.
I suspect this isn't the place to inquire as to the details of your experience with older men, but I'll say it sounds as if you were in some way taken advantage of. If true (and for what little it's worth), I'm sorry for it.
That said, there are nasty people out there of all ages - though among those who go after much younger women, I suspect the percentage is significantly higher.
Thanks for the reply in any case; feel free to drop in again.
P.S. Congratulations on the snow - I thought snow in Houston was a once-in-50-years sort of thing.
Re: Hello
Date: 2005-01-01 11:10 pm (UTC)And I thought it interesting to add that my journal, has indeed been torn to shreds now that the reviews are coming in.
And I think I'll add you, and if you'd like to chat (indeed I wouldn't want to go into any more detail here, but I certainly wouldn't mind doing so on the various forms of instant messaging available) I do believe my messenger info is in my userinfo.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-01 11:24 pm (UTC)But I digress.
And I agree with you, not your teacher - there are intelligent and mature boys out there (at least, there were when I was your age). It might be worth keeping in mind that at least some of them may be very insecure, to the point where you don't even know that they might be interested in you.
One thing I have had confirmed over the years, though: while age is not "just a number", it is only one of many factors that goes into determining whether any given two people will get along - whether just for a while or for a significant period of time.
The key is to pay attention to warning signals - if someone lies to you; if he is possessive or controlling; if he shows signs of being violent, stay away, no matter what other qualities he may have. I have twice gotten badly hurt "explaining away" things I would have spotted in an instant if they had come from someone else's partner.
I also have to wonder, would they have condemned you so badly if she were a year older?
I suspect that those people would have; a couple of them expressed such visceral "ewwww" kind of reactions that I think any gap over (maybe) 10 years would appal them (the fact that Laura is under 18, of course, only made it that much worse in their eyes).
Age of consent is fourteen in Ontario, twelve if the age difference is less than two years. A perfectly reasonable limit, I think.
I agree - though with (largely irrational) reservations when it comes to my neice, who turned 14 this past summer. (I didn't know about the twelve limit; it makes sense.)
(Wait, am I the Gentle Reader who complains that you're nauseating?)
If you did, I missed it. That reference came from cool_hand89 with whom I have been friends for - god help me - more than a quarter of a century.
Re: Hello
Date: 2005-01-01 11:34 pm (UTC)Chatting is unlikely; I have ICQ but almost never touch. If you'd care to exchange thoughts via email however, my address is listed on my friends' page.
Re: Hello
Date: 2005-01-02 12:12 am (UTC)Re: Hello
Date: 2005-01-02 03:46 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-03 01:28 am (UTC)I agree, age is highly important. The "it doesn't matter if you love each other" mentality doesn't appeal to me at all. While I like to think that I have wit and maturity to match most adults, there is still the fact that I've never left the sheltering influence of my parents for any extended period of time except when I lived in Quebec when I was sixteen, but even then I was with host parents; I've never truly had to deal with any woes entirely on my own; all the jobs I've had have been purely for fun and spending money, not for sustenance; and so forth. So I've no inclination to date an older man, but if you can work around those differences, then kudos.
there are intelligent and mature boys out there
The sceptic in me thinks that, should one suddenly pop up in my life, I'd probably have too much competition. Woe.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-03 04:17 pm (UTC)Things were easier when I was young(er). I was able (after a lot of fatherly arm-twisting, to get student-welfare, meaning that I had (barely) enough money to support myself and stay in school (for all the tangible good that did me).
I agree, age is highly important. The "it doesn't matter if you love each other" mentality doesn't appeal to me at all.
If I implied that age is more important than other factors, permit me to correct myself. I put it pretty much in the same league as interests, personality, sense of humour, intelligence, etc. For me, it's the combination of factors that counts most.
... I've no inclination to date an older man, but if you can work around those differences, then kudos.
Thanks - so far, so good.
The sceptic in me thinks that, should [an intelligent and mature boy] suddenly pop up in my life, I'd probably have too much competition. Woe.
If it makes you feel any better, I didn't get involved in a real relationship until I was in my early 20s. I suspect you're not going to match that depressing record.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-07 02:03 pm (UTC)"It's our phallocentric society," his girlfriend whispered, but we could all just tell that it was poor ventriloquism on Young Geoffrey's part, whispering through a hole where her mouth used to be.
Oh, I forgot the real reason I was responding to this. It's because of the literary style of referring to the audience as "Gentle Reader", so frequently used by our protagonist. I find myself chuckling and wondering if even Geoffrey knows if this is something he has unconsciously appropriated from a like-minded... Vladimir Nabokov? Author of... Lolita? Coincidence?
(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-08 04:03 am (UTC)It all works out.
("No doubt also coincidentally"? What a mouthful)