What Are the Rules? (More Adventures In "Dating")

[ed_rex]

For that matter, are there rules anymore?

Saturday evening, I had a young woman over for dinner, a woman with whom I have now met in person 4 or 5 times. She is beautiful, she is passionately intellectual, she is more talented than she gives herself credit for and she can be very funny indeed; we enjoy one another's company and typically find ourselves surprised the time has passed so quickly.

She is also (yes, again) a great deal younger than I am, and one who is not, apparently, given to easily-readable body-language. She tends not to look me in the eye, she holds herself close.

From the tangible facts, I know that she likes me. We have gone out a number of times and she came over to dinner on Saturday. She also knows that I think she's beautiful (which, to me, implies an interest beyond mere platonic friendship). She has a boyfriend (of questionable long-term prospects), but also told me she considers herself polyamorous.

But beyond the tangible facts, I have no idea what she thinks of me.

What does it mean, ladies, when a man invites you over for dinner? Does it mean anything? Do you expect a pass? Think a pass might be made?

Am I an idiot to even be asking the question? (It's true: had she been within 10 years, with all other factors the same, I would have made a move. Am I being condescending in being so much more careful simply because the woman in question is so much younger than I am?)

I am curious as to whether you, my gentle readers, have insights into the general question - what are the rules? Is an invitation to dinner an invitation to dinner, or a tacit understanding that it is also at least a willingness to explore the idea of taking the relationship to a physical level?

When we were sharing a couch, should I have made a pass, or should I have waited for at least some kind of explicit signal she wanted me to?

I have, by the way, expressed my regret (at having not taken the chance) to the woman in question, so I expect I will soon know what she thinks of my questions - and of my cowardice/gallantry. But I am nevertheless curious to know what others think is the proper behaviour in such a situation.

And of course, I am terrified of checking my email. But checking it compulsively I am nevertheless.

If nothing else, I feel wonderfully alive.

Cheers!

Comments

[sabotabby]

You're not going to like this answer, but it really depends on the man. Did the four or five meetings seem like dates? What was her body language like? Was there other furniture in the room where she decided to share a couch with you?

I'm a bit shy when it comes to romance unless I've had a lot to drink, and I usually do expect the guy to make the first move (yeah, yeah, patriarchycakes), and I can usually tell when a guy is going to make a move. I have a lot of totally platonic male friends, many of whom are older than me, and I've been shocked more than once when someone's made a pass within a relationship that I considered completely non-sexual. Again, because I'm shy, I seldom make a move unless I know the guy's attracted to me.

Sometimes an invitation to dinner is just an invitation to dinner. But asking is good. It doesn't so much demonstrate cowardice as it does respect, IMO.

I Don't Mind Your Answer At All

[ed-rex.livejournal.com]

Did the four or five meetings seem like dates? What was her body language like?

All but the first - which was a "we've known each other online for ages, let's meet - could have been Dates, could have been dates. In my mind, they were - sort of - let's see if this leads to Dates, then became, I really like her, I wonder what she thinks?

Her body language has always been unreadable, at least to me. She is either very reserved, or she's not interested at all. (Ooh. I don't like the sound of that, last, clause.)

Was there other furniture in the room where she decided to share a couch with you?

She moved to the couch. I - after much internal dialogue - joined her there. She neither welcomed that move nor recoiled from it. So far as I remember, her body language didn't change.

...I've been shocked more than once when someone's made a pass within a relationship that I considered completely non-sexual.

Had they previously made it clear they thought you were attractive?

Sometimes an invitation to dinner is just an invitation to dinner.

And - god bless complexity - sometimes it's both. A great deal of my hesitancy was due to the fact that I was (and am) afraid that making a pass might make her run from me entirely. I like her. I want to get to know her - and to continue to know her, whether or not something sexual and/or romantic happens between us.

But asking is good. It doesn't so much demonstrate cowardice as it does respect, IMO.

Well, I suppose - here comes that fucking complexity again! - it was both respect and cowardice. And good old fashioned manners, come to think of it - a good host doesn't want to put his guest into an uncomfortable position.

(Sometimes I really do love livejournal, you know?)

Re: I Don't Mind Your Answer At All

[sabotabby]

Had they previously made it clear they thought you were attractive?

Sometimes, sometimes not. In one case, it was a guy I'd been friends with for years and thought of as a mentor. He'd never said, "Oh, I think you're hot," but he did compliment me on my brains and good politics, qualities that he valued above looks. ;) But since I thought of him as a friend and a mentor, not as a potential lover (and when we met, we were both in serious relationships with other people), I didn't take this as an indication that he was attracted to me.

In another case, I totally should have noticed and didn't. But in fairness, I flirt with a lot of men—and women—and a lot flirt back, without any party intending anything more than that.

This said, unwanted passes don't scare me off friendship, unless either a) I make it clear that I'm not interested, and the guy doesn't take the hint and gets all creepy, or b) it's clear that he's interested in me only as a lover and not as a friend. Otherwise, people are attracted to other people all the time and it isn't always mutual. It doesn't hurt to try.

Best of luck, by the way.

Re: I Don't Mind Your Answer At All

[ed-rex.livejournal.com]

<...> unwanted passes don't scare me off friendship, unless either a) I make it clear that I'm not interested, and the guy doesn't take the hint and gets all creepy, or b) it's clear that he's interested in me only as a lover and not as a friend. Otherwise, people are attracted to other people all the time and it isn't always mutual. It doesn't hurt to try.

That last sentence is why I'm kicking myself, of course. I hope she feels the same way, now that I have tried, in what is probably the most unromantic way possible.

Best of luck, by the way.

Thanks. I fear I'll need it.